Curse

Mithie · Aug 11, 2005, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Matt

Now that's extremely debatable...

The graphics look pretty and does not tax my system to hell to do so. Ergo...

Silmor · Aug 11, 2005, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Or maybe people complain/whine because they love Guild Wars, and want to see the game they love improved so it can become even better.

I personally have no respect for people/forums who blindly cheer on a game and reject any sort of criticism, they simply stand in the way of development/improvement. I'll take whining about valid concerns over fanboyism any day, and aside the moral boost, I think ArenaNet is better served by criticism than by blind praise.

Besides, what's there to discuss about "I love Guild Wars!" "I love Guild Wars too!" "Hey, I love it too...!" "...yeah." Trash.

Mr. Matt · Aug 11, 2005, 12:31 PM // 12:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silmor

Or maybe people complain/whine because they love Guild Wars, and want to see the game they love improved so it can become even better.

I personally have no respect for people/forums who blindly cheer on a game and reject any sort of criticism, they simply stand in the way of development/improvement. I'll take whining about valid concerns over fanboyism any day, and aside the moral boost, I think ArenaNet is better served by criticism than by blind praise.

Besides, what's there to discuss about "I love Guild Wars!" "I love Guild Wars too!" "Hey, I love it too...!" "...yeah." Trash.

It always interests me how being satisfied with something is automatically associated with 'fanboyism'. I'd absolutely love to know how you think people can possibly 'love' the game when they blurt out things like "GIVE US UAS OR DIE!", or "ANET LIED TO ME THROUGH THEIR BACK TEETH! I HATE THEM! I PUT A HEX ON YE, I TELL YA!", or "This game sucks completely unless you will give me these things that me and a couple of friends really want..."

There's a difference between criticism and childish whining. Just as there's a difference between blind praise and satisfaction. 75% of the 'criticism' I see around here falls under the 'childish whining' category. There's even at least one regular member of this forum who seemingly specifically logs in just to post how much he hates the game in a few threads and then logs off again, mentioning no names.

I think you'll find that ANet is better served by both criticism and praise. If all they ever get is criticism they'll just assume the whole game's flawed, and that every single player dislikes it. If they don't get any praise they won't know which parts are OK as they are.

Ask anyone who praises the game and I'm sure they'll give you a couple of suggestions for how the game could be improved. The difference is, they don't come onto the forums and announce how much they hate the game, and how they think the game is going to collapse under the weight of its own junk. Which is much less helpful than either praise or criticism.

Numa Pompilius · Aug 11, 2005, 12:35 PM // 12:35

(best gfx EVAR)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Matt

Now that's extremely debatable...

True. However, the only real competition is Half Life 2, Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay, and DOOM3, and personally I'd put them as second to GW (although they are more technologically advanced; especially the lighting in D3 is better than that of GW, but on the other hand D3 environments don't really compare to those of GW).

I'd really love to be able to turn on dynamic lighting in GW, though. That would absolutely rock. And probably reduce most machines to a crawl.

DeadRaven · Aug 11, 2005, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Guild Wars ROCKS! As i posted in another thread... its great for me and my girlfriend as she's moving away in october for a few years to go to Uni. She knows i love games to death. She got into guild more than i did!!! and its going to be a great way to communicate with her whilst being able to play a great game! I think everyone who made Guild Wars deserves a pat on the back. Especially for not making it a monthly payment! And i'll continue to play Guild Wars for a very long time. Even if i decide to take a break from it.
I usually tend to get bored of games quickly, but GW has kept me interested since the beginning. I may not be happy with everything but the game itself is so appealing.
And i know not EVERYONE gets their own way. As most people post a thread moaning about something, and actually think that someone cares. They dont

I love GW.

Dwiggit · Aug 11, 2005, 12:42 PM // 12:42

I love this game too!

I play about 8 hours per week. I've got two ascended characters, but neither has "finished" the game yet.

I'm still finding new and interesting areas, learning to work in a team with other people, and learning new and interesting ways to improve my characters.

I'm having a lot of fun!!!

I think some of the complaints come from the people who say things like "I can only play 4-8 hours per day". 8 hours per day x 7 days = 56 hours per week of playing. Your average working adult can't maintain this kind of schedule. I think these people have probably finished the game with all 4 characters and claim that the game "just isn't very fun!" or "this and that are broken about the game". Maybe they are bored now.

Well, my response is: 56 hours per week x 12 weeks (3 months) playtime = 672 hours of play! If you didn't like the game, maybe you should have stopped playing around 80 hours or so.
Also, that's a LOT of recreation for 50 bucks! I can easily drop that kind of dough taking my family out to the movies! Well worth the money for the amount of entertainment!

Did I mention, I Love Guild Wars!

Dwig

Kabale · Aug 11, 2005, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Quote:

I personally have no respect for people/forums who blindly cheer on a game and reject any sort of criticism, they simply stand in the way of development/improvement. I'll take whining about valid concerns over fanboyism any day, and aside the moral boost, I think ArenaNet is better served by criticism than by blind praise.

Praise and criticism both have their place. I'm sure Anet appreciates every single positive vibe they come across, as they have poured a lot of energy into making this game, and I'm sure if they go around and read customer reactions they get a sense of pride from it. If someone praised you for something you're good at, wouldn't that be even more cause to improve it? Hell, if no-one told me I was any good at piano I would have dropped it straight away...

Criticism is what gives them the areas where improvements are needed. Sometimes the critique is rather harsh in which case I doubt they'd even bother reading it. I'm sure plenty of Game Suggestions have been made to them through the site which offer a description of the same problem but with a more friendly touch.

Just like to add that these forums do not reflect the opinion of the majority of players anyway, as most of these are pleased and playing the game happily, and have no need to sign up for forums and subject themselves to harshness.

BrokenSymmetry · Aug 11, 2005, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Matt

If it makes you feel any better, this forum is one of the more negative ones. I've been to other forums where GW can't get enough praise, and the same can be said in-game as well. This place is the base of operations of the vocal minority it seems.

The base of operations of the PvP-centric "vocal minority" is guild-hall.net, not GWGuru. In fact, in the forums of guild-hall.net, GWGuru is often denounced as a bunch of "carebears", that do nothing but lick the heels of ArenaNet. It's just that in the the last few weeks, several posters (who in many cases are already banned from guild-hall.net) have come over from from guild-hall.net to other forums, just to spread the negativity

SJG · Aug 11, 2005, 12:47 PM // 12:47

If people really didn't like the game they would just leave. The people who complain are the ones who want to see the game get better.

My personal opinion is that the vast majority of the game is very good, but there are some things that appear to serve no purpose other than making the game less enjoyable than it could/should be.

If you look closely the vast majority of complaints concern less than half a dozen issues that are not part of the core gameplay, but that stop people enjoying the core gameplay.

Obsiedion · Aug 11, 2005, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley Twig

Ehm, everybody has his/her own reason for playing GW.
You shouldn't mock neither the one, nor the other.

Hm, I like to bug people with quotes from wikipedia.com:

So primarily, games are played for the reasons you stated, but games are not pure fun, as you suggested.

I wasnt mocking anyone. Some people like to have their fun berating others, some people get their thrills ruining other peoples enjoyment, Others enjoy farming, Botting, and numerous other pasttimes i neither know the names for nor understand. And thats cool. Whatever floats ya boat ya know. But why waste time moaning? wasnt that the point of the thread?"why is everyone so negative? I ignore players whom i disagree with, dont bother fighting them, arguing, or testing them, as it just wastes my time when i could be enjoying my own gaming experience.

Physcologically, most people complain because they want to justify their own actions and thoughts. They search for villification, and ok great i'm sure when you put "Anet banned my account because i didnt know i was cheating out of the game WTF is next" they will undoubtedly get someone who agrees with them. But like i said not judging them whatever floats their boat, but pushing their moaning views on to everyone else is beyond me. maybe i just have a different mindset

Bug away

Oxford english and rodgets online ya gotta pay for and i am cheap skate

Ok i conceed everyone has their own reasons for playing games, but why would you bother if it wasnt fun? I might aswell sit and poke myself in the eye.... ouch...thats not fun....

Ps oops and sorry if i made a mess of this posting....and i dont intend to turn this into a flame war...(what is a flame war...?) and i wish i could do that breaking up text thing would have made this much easier to read

Obs

MarkyX · Aug 11, 2005, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myth Osis

This is probably a huge generalization on my behalf but it would seem that when people get somthing for free they are more encoraged to moan about it. I am going to discontinue posting on these forums as it would seem that people are not providing "Good comunity discussion" but rather moaning about anything and everything they can think about.

Is this because you get the feeling you are getting ripped off?
Do you think you are not getting your moneys worth?
or are you just dishartened because something you posted about months ago hasnt been implemented in the game?

I love guild wars I think its fun. THERE I SAID IT!

Am I the only person that loves this game.

Some positive posts would be nice .. just once and a while.

Farewell.

Maybe it's because the things they promised before the release of the game was very misleading to the retail release?

"No need to grind!" - You won't get elitse, all the necessary skills, and runes.

"Time is not a factor, skill is" - Somewhat true. You can have every skill in the game but still suck ass, but you still need to spend a lot of time just to unlock a few skills.

There is many more, but I pin the blame of GW's problems mostly on the community. You'll see later in my post.

Neo-LD · Aug 11, 2005, 01:08 PM // 13:08

I see so many threads about "OMG theres too much grind in this game!" or "OMG spirits are hax"

To the people who complain about grind: No one said you have to unlock EVERYTHING. Currently Im having a blast with my guild in tombs and team arenas and I dont have hardly any warrior, necro, or elementalist skills. I play my monk and my ranger instead. Even when I went to go unlock the skills for those 2 characters, I never thought about it as work. This is a GAME. It is FUN to go out, kick some butt, get a skill, etc. Character advancement. I guarentee you that hundreds of thousands of gamers like that kind of stuff. Proof? Diablo 2. The ENTIRE GAME is grind, character advancement, rushing, and getting cool gear. And its what 5 years old and still one of the most popular multiplayer games in the world. The moment you start resenting character advancement, you have lost sight of the true nature of 1/2 the game. The increased PvE aspect was implemented so GW was a better game as a whole. I guarentee that every gamer and magaizine would have nailed it for being too short and not having enough emphasis on story.

To the people who complain about PvP imbalance (namely sprrits): GET OVER IT. Last month it was the air spike. Now spirits. In all likelyhood a new FotM will rise soon. If it doesnt, ANet will eventually fix it. But temporary imbalance isnt an excuse to quit the game! Take Warcraft 3. That game got immense hype and was/is the greats RTS in the world. But In version 1.01 there was HORRID imbalance. Namely it was the huntress rush, but I wont get into that cus 1/2 the people here wont know what Im talking about. Know what? People still played. Know what? It got fixed eventually. Know what? GW is the same way.

Rieselle · Aug 11, 2005, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Having recently tried EQ2, quitting that, getting WoW, quitting that, now GW, I'd have to say that forums are all full of whiners. Heck, the internet is full of whiners. Maybe the world is full of whiners. No, really, I dont know how it is with other online games (EVE? DAOC? Matrix Online? *pffthahaha*) but every online game forum I've seen is full of whiners.

I think it's because A. Online games are generally released "unfinished" (compared to say, console games.) and B. Online games can change, so there's more incentive to speak up, rather than just put up with it and hope they fix it in the sequel.

Kabale · Aug 11, 2005, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

"No need to grind!" - You won't get elitse, all the necessary skills, and runes.

I wouldn't consider this grind. I think a lot of people would agree.

MarkyX · Aug 11, 2005, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabale

I wouldn't consider this grind. I think a lot of people would agree.

When are you farming for runes or spending your time in UW to get that piece of armor...

That's grinding.

Silmor · Aug 11, 2005, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Matt

It always interests me how being satisfied with something is automatically associated with 'fanboyism'. I'd absolutely love to know how you think people can possibly 'love' the game when they blurt out things like "GIVE US UAS OR DIE!", or "ANET LIED TO ME THROUGH THEIR BACK TEETH! I HATE THEM! I PUT A HEX ON YE, I TELL YA!", or "This game sucks completely unless you will give me these things that me and a couple of friends really want..."

I use the term fanboyism to describe any GW enthusiast who refuses to acknowledge any flaw with the game, denouncing complaints without trying to comprehend them, usually without actual clue about the issue. My problem isn't with people who are satisfied, it's with people who apparently feel so satisfied that they can't tolerate others to be unsatisfied.

Have you ever considered that someone who is shouting for UAS might have actually already unlocked all skills in the game, found it an entirely cumbersome and repetitive process resembling exactly that which GW said it would prevent - grind, in other words, has the actual experience to base a complaint on, as opposed to baseless whining? My problem is with people who just reached Lion's Arch on their first character, still have the entire world open to them, then read a 'whine' like that, get upset and exclaim that Guild Wars is GREAT and doesn't need UAS.

Quote:

There's a difference between criticism and childish whining. Just as there's a difference between blind praise and satisfaction. 75% of the 'criticism' I see around here falls under the 'childish whining' category. There's even at least one regular member of this forum who seemingly specifically logs in just to post how much he hates the game in a few threads and then logs off again, mentioning no names.

Moderation is key ofcourse, and I agree there is a lot of baseless whining going on (wah I want to be richer, wah there are not enough l33t weapons) - anyone with half a clue can filter that sort of thing. But a lot of the whining stems from a couple of problems that seem to trouble a large group of players, and as long as they're not addressed, the whining is just going to grow in volume. And ofcourse if people start whine threads about people whining like the OP did, that doesn't exactly help.

Quote:

I think you'll find that ANet is better served by both criticism and praise. If all they ever get is criticism they'll just assume the whole game's flawed, and that every single player dislikes it. If they don't get any praise they won't know which parts are OK as they are.

I believe every thread where Gaile announced her presence got about 75% praise and 25% people trying to get her to acknowledge certain issues. I agree that praise and criticism both have their place, but a forum is typically a place where people discuss things. Discussions require difference of opinion usually, so there's not a whole lot to talk about in praise threads, which is why they usually get launched in the nature of 'because everyone else is whining, I hereby start a praise thread!' making them a complain thread by itself. A good critic starts a thread because he wants to see a change, and that alone shows care for Guild Wars already.

Quote:

Ask anyone who praises the game and I'm sure they'll give you a couple of suggestions for how the game could be improved. The difference is, they don't come onto the forums and announce how much they hate the game, and how they think the game is going to collapse under the weight of its own junk. Which is much less helpful than either praise or criticism.

Ask any player, and they'll give a couple of suggestions for how the game could be improved, that's universal, and we can agree about that. A satisfied player will typically not have issues with the game that detract from his playing experience, instead suggesting things that would add to the game for him (new classes, new skills, you name it). A complainer does have issues with the game that detract from his playing experience. Although some choose rather poor ways to express their issues, that doesn't mean those issues don't exist. And as long as issues aren't addressed or acknowledged, chances are people are going to continue whining about the same thing over and over (such as the traders, currently).

Finally, just because there is no monthly fee doesn't disqualify you from every right to want improvements. Every player paid for the game, and the game was advertised to be developed with updates and expansions - that's what people signed up for, what they paid for. And customers should always be allowed to complain about what they consider a broken product, ofcourse. ArenaNet is not a charitable organisation, they are a business, and we are its customers. There is no question of 'free'.

Red Sonya · Aug 11, 2005, 01:19 PM // 13:19

["The game is designed to reward player skill and teamwork, not time spent playing, so you won't need to spend hundreds of hours leveling up your character to compete." ]

And the game does "exactly that"! Maybe not up to your "expectations", but, the advertisement never promised that. You don't have to spend 100's of hours too compete, you can compete the "very first day" all you have to do is use one of the "premade" PVP characters and you are competing. You're problem is you expected too much, you expected what you expected and didn't see "exactly" what the game offered by its advertisement, which I see as perfectly correct. I could "compete" without 100's of hours of play the "very first day". You're just a whinny brat who didn't get "HIS WAY" Waaaahhhhhh!! lol

MarkyX · Aug 11, 2005, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Quote:

I guarentee you that hundreds of thousands of gamers like that kind of stuff. Proof? Diablo 2. The ENTIRE GAME is grind, character advancement, rushing, and getting cool gear.

I can tell you why the game is popular, coming from an ex-diablo fanatic (I even have the Dungeons and Dragons edition, which kicks ass)

It's simple, very easy to get into it, and quick to join in.

You play GW, and you have to spend half an hour finding the right group, make sure they have the right skills, and then realize that one of them is very shitty in the game or disconnects.

Diablo 2 is not a frusterating game. GW is starting to become one.

Numa Pompilius · Aug 11, 2005, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Seems to me most of the complaining is coming from the PvP crowd. For instance grinding (for elites, skills, and runes), needing to spend time playing, and balancing are purely PvP complaints.

If that is because the PvP metagame or the PvP crowd is worse than the PvE counterpart I do not know.

MarkyX · Aug 11, 2005, 01:23 PM // 13:23

I'm PvP so I'm very competitive. This is why I own games like Battlefield 2 and EA's sports game.

In a game like this, the fun isn't "unlocking stuff", but finding that uber build amongst the huge list of skills.

A.net doesn't get that, unfortunately.